Quando gira il mercato ?

 

  By: Mr.Fog on Lunedì 16 Luglio 2007 10:56

GIOCATI DAL CASO-IL RUOLO DELLA FORTUNA NELLA FINANZA E NELLA VITA Ed. Il Saggiatore ------------------------------------- Mmmm...ma Tu lo hai letto? Intendo...letto bene?

 

  By: kkaude on Domenica 15 Luglio 2007 19:21

1- NON CREDO ALLE PREVISIONI FINANZIARE, AI MAGHI, AI GURU E AI PRESUNTI GURU 2- PENSO INVECE CHE SIA MOLTO UTILE DIVERSIFICARE E INSERIRE DEGLI ASSET DECORRELATI NEL PROPRIO PORTAFOGLIO E IN OGNI CASO VALUTANDO ATTENTAMENTE I FONDAMENTALI. 3- NON RIESCO MOLTO A CAPIRE IL CONTINUO BATTAGE RIBASSISTA DI QUESTO SITO. MOLTE COSE DETTE SONO VERE E CONDIVISIBILI, MA SICURAMENTE TUTTO CIO' HA PORTATO ENORMI PERDITE A CHI IN QUALCHE MODO SI LASCIA COINVOLGERE IN QUESTA LOGICA SHORT. PUO' ESSERE CHE VENGA UN LUNGO PERIODO ORSO, OPPORE CI SIA UN CROLLO MA PUO' ESSERE CHE QUESTO AVVENGA TRA UN ANNO O FORSE DUE E NEL FRATTEMPO IL MERCATO MACINA ALTRI RECORD. NON E' CERTO ZIBORDI A SAPERLO, ADESSO FORSE SONO DI PIU' GLI ARGOMENTI A FAVORE DI UN RIBASSO CHE DI UN RIALZO, MA LA FINANZA E L'ECONOMIA NON SONO COSE STATICHE, TUTTO E' UN CONTINUO DIVENIRE E LA REALTA' SI PRESENTA SEMPRE CON ASPETTI DIVERSI RISPETTO AL PASSATO. PERSONALMENTE MI ASTENGO DA FARE PREVISIONI MA IL MIO ASSET E' COSI' COMPOSTO: 40% EQUITY LONG 30% ASSET DECORRELATI O LONG-SHORT 30% BOND LUNGA DURATION (attualmente decorrelati rispetto all'equity) AGLI INCALLITI GURU RIBASSISTI CONSIGLIO DI LEGGERE: Nassim Nicholas taleb GIOCATI DAL CASO-IL RUOLO DELLA FORTUNA NELLA FINANZA E NELLA VITA Ed. Il Saggiatore kkaude

 

  By: Gano* on Domenica 15 Luglio 2007 17:57

E' oramai piu' di un anno che sento argomenti ribassisti ma ancora non sono riuscito a capirne bene la logica che vi sta dietro, o per dirla meglio quella stessa logica non e' ancora riuscita a convincermi...

 

  By: gianlini on Domenica 15 Luglio 2007 16:28

è davvero un dramma per i ribassisti in generale e in particolare nei fini settimana non succede mai assolutamente nulla di interessante o rilevante nel mondo peccato per la caduta di Valentino, oggi...accidenti...mondiale perso!

 

  By: Esteban on Sabato 14 Luglio 2007 17:00

Certo Ferpa, Il problema è che con le stesse regole ora pensa che il mercato sia il + caro degli ultimi 40 anni ! FORBES - Should You Still Buy Value Stocks? David Serchuk and James M. Clash 04.09.07 ^Grantham is the professorial chairman of Boston money management firm GMO. He knows from experience that growth and value spurts tend to run in five- to seven-year cycles, and it is time for a change. (serve la registrazione perciò copincollo.) After a seven-year run value stocks are pricier than ever. When Jeremy Grantham says that, it's time to think about buying growth stocks instead. At the end of the 20th century some starry-eyed investors spied the dawn of a new paradigm. Technology, productivity and the Internet knew no bounds, and so it was impossible to pay too much for a stock like Amazon (nasdaq: AMZN - news - people ) or Cisco (nasdaq: CSCO - news - people ). Meanwhile, value stocks--those trading at low multiples of sales or book value--languished. Today the situation has reversed. Everyone, it seems, is a fan of value. What does that tell you? Probably that you should sell value stocks and buy something else--namely, growth stocks. You pay extra, of course, for companies with better prospects, but not much extra. In today's market, traditional growth companies like Microsoft (nasdaq: MSFT - news - people ) and Johnson & Johnson (nyse: JNJ - news - people ) are comparative bargains. For evidence that value stocks are overbought we can find no better witness than Jeremy Grantham, a famous fan of the genre. A fan, that is, when value is indeed cheap. But it isn't cheap now, he says. Grantham is the professorial chairman of Boston money management firm GMO. He knows from experience that growth and value spurts tend to run in five- to seven-year cycles, and it is time for a change. "The last time one market segment won this consistently was growth's final run from 1999 into early 2000," he says. "And we don't have to tell you how that party ended." As a market savant, Grantham, 67, has few peers. A value-oriented fellow who has studied market trends for decades, he called the end of the 1990s tech bubble before it burst, and then he forecast the current heyday of value stocks. Grantham's firm (assets under management: $141 billion) has a stellar record managing money, mainly for institutions and a few wealthy folks. Grantham is the sole founder still working full-time at the firm, whose acronym stands for Grantham, Mayo, Van Otterloo & Co. Richard Mayo left the firm a few years ago, and Eyk Van Otterloo is still a director. GMO has a handful of high-performing mutual funds, but with minimum investments of $10 million, they are out of the reach of most. Over the past five years, amid broad popularity of foreign investments, GMO International Intrinsic Value II clocked a 19.5% annual return, beating its benchmark, the MSCI Europe Australasia Far East index, by 4.9 percentage points. Its U.S. Intrinsic Value III portfolio had a respectable five-year annual return of 6.7%. You have to admire GMO's devotion to the number crunching that is the basis for its successful augury. In 2001 GMO called the market turn by comparing the average price/book ratio of the 125 S&P stocks that had the lowest such ratios with the index as a whole. The historic average ratio for the bottom quartile is just over half that of the whole index. Then as the tech bubble burst, the lowest quartile averaged just one-quarter of it, which looked like a bottoming and heralded a turnaround. If you'd followed Grantham's advice back in 2001, you'd be content. He saw double-digit growth ahead for small and midsize value stocks, and that is exactly what happened (see chart). In fact, value funds specializing in companies with small (averaging $1.5 billion) market capitalizations returned 13.6% annualized over the past five years, and midcap value reaped 13.4%. Large-cap value didn't do as well as its smaller brethren (8.2%) because it has become a repository for onetime hot-growth companies like General Electric (nyse: GE - news - people ) and Pfizer (nyse: PFE - news - people ), which have joined the value ranks as their once towering P/Es shrank. Over the past five years small and medium-size growth companies returned more like 8% annually. Large-cap growth, by comparison, returned a miserly 3.4% annually during that time. Grantham uses the same methodology as he did earlier in the decade to conclude that today's value stocks are way overpriced. Take that comparison of average price/book ratios for the cheapest 125 S&P stocks (in price/book) with the average for the index as a whole. Normally the clunker stocks go for 50% of the S&P's price/book; now they're at 65%. What's more, value stocks are not only expensive relative to 2001, they're more expensive than at any time over the past 40 years. "Low price/book stocks don't win by some divine right," says Sam J. Wilderman, a GMO partner. "They win when they are priced to win, and they've never been this rich." Indeed, small-company value stocks (like Jos. A. Bank Clothiers (nasdaq: JOSB - news - people )) are riskier than the large company value (like Altria (nyse: MO - news - people )) because the small ones tend to have less stable returns and lower profit margins. And, Grantham warns, midcap value names are the riskiest yet. Reason: So many investors took part in the small-stock boom that they've bloated the market value of a lot of smaller firms (small in revenues, employee count and so on) into the midcap range. Louisiana-Pacific Corp. (nyse: LPX - news - people ) might look cheap. By conventional metrics it's a value stock because it goes for 17 times earnings. But its three-year earnings growth is hardly praiseworthy (--20%), and it's trading at the high end of its historical P/E range. The explanation for the mid- and small-cap craze, says Grantham, is that the business climate of the past few years--featuring high consumption, high global growth in economic output and fat profit margins--has been so strong that it has spilled over to smaller companies. Their suddenly robust financial performance attracts inordinate Wall Street interest, especially for the relatively cheap small stocks. "So their profit margins have gone up more than the Mercks, the Eli Lillys and the General Electrics," he says. What should an investor do? Search for buys in the lagging large-company growth category (see "The New Value Stocks" table). Stocks like Microsoft and Dell (nasdaq: DELL - news - people ) look like buys, given their earnings growth and their past p/es. The two GMO funds cited before stay in large-cap territory, and they weathered the 2000--02 bear market quite nicely; while they lost money in some of those bad years, they beat the market every time. Lately the strategy of GMO's U.S. value fund has been to take advantage of a change in the value game board. It tilts away from value stocks that have become overpriced and favors ones that have fallen from the growth category. Since few investors can afford a GMO fund, we've collected some alternatives (see "How to Navigate the Coming Value Collapse" table). These five funds, which get mostly good grades from FORBES for their performance in bear markets, charge below the 1.6% yearly average for domestic actively managed funds. The Yacktman Fund holds some dispirited names that could come back. Returning 12.5% annualized over the past five years, the fund earns just three stars overall from Morningstar, (nasdaq: MORN - news - people ) although it, too, easily bests the S&P 500. This fund's leading holding is Coca-Cola (nyse: KO - news - people ), making up 9% of its net assets. The soda giant has seen some hard times recently; its $48 share price is $10 less than in late 1999. The P/E has also slumped: 22 compared with 59 during the bubble. Sounds like a buy. In addition, the fund holds once lofty Microsoft. Now let's take a look at the overheated value stocks, whose current market runs, if Grantham is right, represent a value peak. In 1999 Boeing (nyse: BA - news - people ), Federated Department Stores (nyse: FD - news - people ) and Harrah's Entertainment (nyse: HET - news - people ) were genuine value stocks, with price/earnings ratios half the market's 30. Now they are all trading at P/Es above the market's average P/E of 17. For the moment their prospects look good. Boeing is enjoying a surge in airplane orders, Federated a revival at Macy's, Harrah's a boom in casino traffic. But don't expect their premium P/Es to last. The best idea: Sell now.

 

  By: gianlini on Sabato 14 Luglio 2007 12:31

DD con i soldi guadagnati dal long è sicuramente alle bermuda in un resort da 25.000 dollari a notte circondato da 5 bellezze provenienti dai 5 continenti che lo incensano e soddisfano in ogni suo minimo desiderio temo abbia anche un bel sigaro in bocca, ma non ne sono sicuro Corcas invece si è rigirato ed è ora Sacros, pare si sia ritirato fra i monaci del monte Athos

 

  By: Fortunato on Sabato 14 Luglio 2007 01:07

Sono estremamente preoccupato per le sorti di Corcas e DD, qualcuno li ha visti o sentiti? Temo che abbiano imboccato l'estrema ratio, è possibile? "Se ci siete battete un colpo!" :-)))))))))))))))))))))) Fortunato

 

  By: Pitagora on Venerdì 13 Luglio 2007 20:07

cvd Dopo le scossettine dei giorni scorsi siamo tornati alla tranquillità. Siamo tornati allo zero,poco. Più o meno, poco conta.

 

  By: temistocle2 on Venerdì 13 Luglio 2007 03:29

Stock: Sony

Complimenti a GZ per la segnalazione dell' 1/7/07 Sony Ericsson Profit Rises 54 Percent Forbes - 4 hours ago - http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/07/12/ap3909007.html

 

  By: gianlini on Venerdì 13 Luglio 2007 02:16

era ieri che il dax era andato a 7863? oggi siamo a 8180 in chiusura solo 317 punti in 30 ore circa..... no, perchè se non compri adesso, quando compri? cmq la scadenza opzioni è settimana prossima....ne vedremo delle belle!

 

  By: Fortunato on Venerdì 13 Luglio 2007 00:51

Yes, Defil. Fortunato

 

  By: Esteban on Venerdì 13 Luglio 2007 00:27

Penso .... E' come ha detto Zibordi , gli ultimi tot minuti fanno i numeri ... Oggi ne è stata la conferma. Per ora è un doppio massimo . Si ... probabilmente son testardo ... Ma lo yen è rimasto fermo e NZD e SF EUR £ non si sono mossi in questi ultimi momenti.

 

  By: defilstrok on Venerdì 13 Luglio 2007 00:19

CVD = Come Volevasi Dimostrare ?

 

  By: Fortunato on Venerdì 13 Luglio 2007 00:17

C.V.D. Fortunato

 

  By: defilstrok on Venerdì 13 Luglio 2007 00:13

Grazie! Tempestivo come sempre. E cosa ne pensi?