Sui ribassisti / catastrofisti e la situazione attuale

 

  By: Mr.Fog on Domenica 19 Dicembre 2004 22:07

Sto ancora aspettando di vedere il periodo 3 .... -------------------------------------------- Poli, ma non pensi che un anno di "laterale" sia piu' che sufficente? La battaglia che si e' combattuta sui cambi (Gian se la ricorda ancora...) e gli scossoni sul Bond, non sono abbastanza per decretare conclusa la fase 3?

 

  By: polipolio on Domenica 19 Dicembre 2004 13:29

"Ora per dirla alla Soros il periodo 1= trend non ancora riconosciuto, il periodo 2= trend riconosciuto e rafforzato dalla distorsione, il periodo 3 = prezzi arretrano (pausa-tecnica-prova) e periodo 4 = distorsione piu' forte che mai e quindi accelerazione, dovrebbero essere alle spalle. Rimangono il 5 = momento della verita' (realta' non puo' sostenere le aspettative), il 6 = confusione (si sta al gioco ma non ci si crede piu') e 7 la distorsione si inverte = crollo." Sto ancora aspettando di vedere il periodo 3 ....

 

  By: Mr.Fog on Domenica 19 Dicembre 2004 13:26

Accorti, ce ne siamo accorti. Il problema ora e' capire per quanto ancora questa situazione e' sostenibile. Mr.Fog -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24 November 2004 23:3 Di buono c'e' almeno che ormai tutti hanno riconosciuto la distorsione di questo ultimo mercato toro. Il gioco si e' concentrato sui bond e sui cambi ed ha permesso alle borse di crescere oltre ogni aspettativa. La guerra in Iraq, la crescita del petrolio e delle materie prime, la Cina hanno la loro importanza ma i fili sono retti dall'asse tassi bassi e dollaro basso. Ora per dirla alla Soros il periodo 1= trend non ancora riconosciuto, il periodo 2= trend riconosciuto e rafforzato dalla distorsione, il periodo 3 = prezzi arretrano (pausa-tecnica-prova) e periodo 4 = distorsione piu' forte che mai e quindi accelerazione, dovrebbero essere alle spalle. Rimangono il 5 = momento della verita' (realta' non puo' sostenere le aspettative), il 6 = confusione (si sta al gioco ma non ci si crede piu') e 7 la distorsione si inverte = crollo. Come al solito io sono in anticipo.

fino a quando il dollaro rests debole la festa continua - gz  

  By: GZ on Domenica 19 Dicembre 2004 00:17

OK, siamo tutti al ribasso al momento sembra e negli ultimi due giorni I MERCATI (azioni e obbligazioni) invece di salire come al solito hanno perso qualche punto, ma non bisogna confondere discorsi a breve termine e medio. Per guadagnare la pagnotta su questo sito suggeriamo operazioni che durano due o tre giorni o una settimana, ma sono operazioni "tecniche". Se si ragiona invece su qualche mese Barron's di questa settimana esce oggi con questa bella intervista a due guru che avvisano hedge funds e sintetizzano la situazione a MEDIO TERMINE cosi': Il mondo finanziario e' nelle mani della speculazione come non mai e tutti sono al rialzo sull'"inflazione" intesa non come prezzi Istat, ma come incremento del prezzo di tutti gli Asset, cioe' Obbligazioni, Azioni e Immobili e anche Materie Prime. E tutti allo stesso tempo sono al ribasso sul Dollaro, da cui si deduce che le due cose sono legate. Non so se lo si e' notato abbastanza, ma TUTTO STA SALENDO, le borse, i bonds e BTP, gli immobili e le materie prime e non e' (quasi) mai successo prima! - le borse sono salite in media di un +15% con punte del 40% sui mercati emergenti - le obbligazioni in media hanno reso (facendo una media di breve, lungo, statali e corporate) almeno un 6%, dopo che salgono dal 1994 ininterrottamente - gli immobili si sono apprezzati del 13% medio in Italia e America e nel resto del mondo penso numeri simili - le materie prime sono salite, specie metalli ed energia L'economia reale, redditi, consumi, investimenti, inflazione e' OK negli ultimi due anni, facendo una media di asia, america ed europa, ma niente di eccezionale. La cosa eccezionale e' il rialzo dei prezzi di tutti i valori patrimoniali che ha poco a che fare con la ripresa economica e dipende solo dalla mega creazione di liquidita' che a sua volta e' legata alla svalutazione del dollaro e al deficit estero USA. Ma il DEBITO NEL MONDO E' IN LARGA PARTE IN DOLLARI ! Per cui fino a quando il dollaro si svaluta il debito continua ad aumentare. Quando il dollaro smette di scendere sono guai. Morale: del Pil, consumi, redditi, investimenti, inflazione ce ne possiamo infischiare. Conta solo il gioco del dollaro e tassi di interesse nel creare una massa enorme di liquidita' che poi spinge su tutto quello che ha un valore patrimoniale, sia la tua casa o le tue azioni o i tuoi BTP o le tue monete d'oro. Tutto questo e' spinto dall'accumulazione del DEBITO in Dollari e fino a quando il dollaro resta debole la festa continua (NB copio tutto invece di mettere solo il Link che sarebbe piu' educato perche' e' un testo sotto password) ----------------------------------------------------- MONDAY, DECEMBER 20, 2004 By SANDRA WARD An Interview With Bob Hoye and Ross Clark Barron's: I'm interested in your notion that the world is long inflation and short the dollar. Hoye: That's where the main speculation has been. It is important to know that by inflation we don't mean the rate of change of the CPI [consumer-price index], but inflation in stocks and bonds, energy and industrial commodities. Some think it's a sign of tightening that the Fed has increased the fed-funds rate four times. But the money supply is still growing. Speculation has become so intense that short rates have been going up because of the demand for speculative money. I doubt that the Fed would ever deliberately tighten, because they want to keep the party going. Q: So you're saying the Fed isn't in charge of our destiny? Hoye: It is all in the hands of the speculators. The market never accommodates the desires of the crowd, and we would include central bankers among the crowd. Sentiment figures for the stock market, by many measures, show extreme bullishness. The Investor's Intelligence survey just popped up to a multiyear high. Sentiment as applied to the dollar index shows only 5% bullishness. Being long stocks, bonds or commodities is all a way of being short the dollar, so to speak, especially if you've borrowed to own it. If you borrow, you have got to pay it back, so therefore you short the currency you need to pay it back in. Clark: From a technical perspective, I look at the strength of trends. We do that on a daily, weekly and monthly basis. On a daily and monthly basis, the U.S. dollar index has declined at a pace that has reached an extreme, matching what we saw at each of the other interim bottoms since the index started trading in the mid-1980s. Hoye: The last time the index was in this condition was this past January, before the dollar rallied to 92 from 84½. Clark: Since 1985, we've had seven or eight such occurrences, and each one has produced either a consolidation within a declining trend or has created a very significant multimonth corrective rally. Q: Given the conditions, what do you expect this time? Hoye: We would like to have the dollar quietly stabilize -- that would be ideal -- and then later in January start to recover and end with some excitement with an intermediate move to around 90. Clark: There are two ways in which the dollar can come off the bottom, historically, and they both start the same way. Typically, there is about a four-to-six-day recovery rally off a significant bottom. We've seen that. The relative-strength index got back to about 48 recently. Typically, in the first stages of a rally, the relative strength of the dollar will get to about 52, plus or minus about three points, so it's within that parameter. It is also back to the 20-day moving average, and this is the first thing you would expect to see at the turn. In the next week to 10 days, you would expect to see more choppy action in the dollar after the recent directional move where the dollar recovered almost every day. The choppy phase should take us through the approach of Christmas. If it doesn't show a certain amount of strength, then it is probable it will work its way back down and reach a new interim low by the end of January. From there, we can stage a very significant rally. Q: What's the second path the dollar might take? Hoye: If the dollar can stay up in the next couple of weeks, it will suggest the turn is clearly in place and a significant bottom was made. That will lead to a multimonth rally right off these levels. Otherwise, a rally might be delayed until we hit late January or early February before we are capable of it. I'd love the dollar to become an item that is no longer in the headlines and move back to page 3 or 4. We are in the sixth great period of inflation in financial assets that started in the 1700s with the South Sea Bubble. As in the past, the real price of gold went down as the stock-market bubble formed, then went up in the post-bubble contraction. Also, the senior currency became chronically and relentlessly strong, even after the bubble. That's explained by the fact that the boom happened not only in the stock market, but also in debt instruments, as players in the world's financial capital were more than happy to lend money to emerging markets. The debt owed this time around is payable in dollars. The Fed may want to inflate credit, but if everybody is of a mood to pay down debt or avoid debt, then the Fed has a problem. Q: Are we close to a day of reckoning? Hoye: There have been a series of speculative spikes this year in commodities and other sectors -- first in nickel, then the Baltic freight rate, then grains, then silver. All those faced a shakeout. Then the Nasdaq sold off. In late July, the market prepared for another rally where the market would test all the previous spikes or make sequential tops. The last to spike was silver, and the decline in silver recently has been particularly brutal. One sign of liquidity disappearing is when silver plunges rapidly, relative to gold. That is happening big-time. By the size of the drop in silver, somebody could be terribly offside, and it may take a while before we know who blew it. This is all reminiscent of other post-presidential-election periods. Of interest is the 1972 pattern in the Dow Jones Industrial Average and the S&P 500, which set one of the most important turn-of-the-year tops ever because what followed the high in the first part of January 1973 was the worst bear market since the 1930s. Q: Déjà vu all over again? Hoye: It looks similar. Clark: If we take a look at the consolidation pattern we've been in since the early part of the year, there are probably two dozen examples in the last 100 years where we've come out in a very similar manner. A good percentage of those can be found around a post-election stretch, such as we have now. The move coming out of October was explosive, and the Dow, as we expected, reached 10,600 and the S&P hit 1194. That move didn't come on a single push. Such moves work their way up, but slowly lose momentum and consolidate and make marginally higher highs over a span of a few weeks to a month, which is what is going on right now. The momentum move is behind us. Now there should be less momentum on the upside. Support should be right around the 50-day moving average, which is 10,300 on the Dow. On the S&P, support is at 1160. We have bounced off the 20-day moving average on both indexes recently, which is a perfect first test to have. Even if this rally has some legs and makes a new high, it will just be a marginally higher high because we still have to test support levels. Q: What role does oil play, since that was an important feature in 1973-74? Clark: Oil prices just happen to be coincident. When you look at individual items, you can analyze them but as you put them together in a basket, whether it be oil, the dollar or other assets, it is very difficult to recognize which one at a given time is the primary driving force. It is like people trying to rationalize budget deficits and currency moves, and it just isn't possible. At given times, they run in concert with one another; other times, they don't. It is similar to gold and the U.S. dollar: They run hand to hand about 25% of the time, but it is the 75% of the time that everybody is aware of. : Does some of the momentum in the market you talk about correlate with what is known as the Santa Claus rally? Clark: Yes. I did some research with Dr. Bill Ziemba in the early 'Eighties on this, and we put together a small-cap- versus-large-cap trade, which has worked exceptionally well. The entry window is Dec. 15-17 and the exit should be by the 8th of January. You have to be careful about finding entry points for the Santa Claus rally and know your exits, just as you can't be a generalist about what happens in presidential-election years. You have got to look for specific characteristics that should be present at certain turning points. So the last part of this week was where you would anticipate finding a good low entry point for small-caps. You look for an oversold condition in the market and then for that part of the market to show life once again. If you get that characteristic, then you have more confidence to go with the transaction. If there isn't a hard break, it means that positions through year end would have to be of a smaller size than we would normally want. As we head into the seasonal turn at the end of the year, if we don't get a rally of significance, we have to read into that. That's what happened in Japan in January of 1990. Typically, January was the best month of the year in Japan, and yet in 1990, January didn't start on a positive note. That was the warning sign, and the market went into a slide from then on. Historically, there are a couple of failures that occurred from December highs, and some of them are very similar to the makeup of the market right now. The U.S. market in January 1973 is a prime example, and it happens to have also been a climate where there were some very significant moves in commodities in the preceding two years. The statistics over many, many decades suggest that if there is a hot market going into the turn of the year, there is a good chance it is a very important top. And by any measure, sentiment figures on the stock market and sentiment figures on the bond market are about as extreme as you get. There is also an old market saw about the "copper roof" that refers to the seasonality of copper. In the past 40 years, copper has set nine speculative highs, and seven of them topped out near the turn of the year. The high, so far, for copper was 149.4 on Oct. 11. It has come down to 135 or 134, but it might pop up again with the stock market. Nonetheless, I think that also indicates a top. Q: Where is the opportunity, then? Hoye: In the government-bond market. In the three-to-five-year Treasuries. We're looking for a bond rally to continue for at least the next few weeks. But at some point, the general loss of liquidity in the financial markets could eventually pull down bond prices. On the lower-grade side of the bond market, the loss of liquidity can be awful quick. Q: And the only other area you are positive about is gold? Hoye: Yes. Everybody was looking at gold in dollar terms as the dollar was crashing, but the price of gold until March or April was falling relative to commodities. Placer Dome, a big gold producer, reported a very disappointing quarter because their production outside of dollar terms wasn't making any money. Our gold-divided-by-commodity index improved from 183 in March to a high recently of 244. A nice gain, but what's important about it is the last time it came out of the doldrums and rallied was late September 2000, when it signaled there could be a contraction coming, and in November the yield curve reversed. One of the worst things that could happen now would be Treasury-bill rates starting to come down, which would steepen the curve. The next step would be to have credit spreads between long Treasuries and high-yield bonds start to widen. There is none of that yet, but we are watching for it. Q: You talk about a loss of liquidity, but corporations appear to be very liquid and some say that's bullish for the market. Hoye: One of the things that really bothered policy makers in the 1930s is that corporations and individuals who had money wouldn't spend it. Q: How does China fit into your line of thinking? Hoye: There was a big commodity mania in 1864 in Europe and England and the United States. In the United States, it was particularly acute because of the Civil War. Nine years later, the bubble blew up. An English economist described the 1873-to-1895 contraction as "the great depression." At the time, the U.S. was enjoying tremendous immigration and also a lot of movement from one place to another within the United States. It was a very free economy. There was a change in iron and steel production, and railroads were being built like mad everywhere, and so were canals, but it was all within the context of a long contraction. An index of farmland values in England from the time went down annually from 1873 without relief until the depression bottom in 1895. The U.S. market was vulnerable to its own excesses, and it had some good booms and good busts during the period. It was also vulnerable to the availability of credit in the financial center, which was then London. Fast forward to China today. Our conclusion is it will be subject to its own excesses, and it will also be subject to the availability of credit in the world financial capital. I think the availability of credit is about to change. The China boom is probably over, and you are going to have some form of a recession there. Q: And just what will make credit less available? Hoye: The steepening of the curve will be the sign of a sudden flight to quality. That flight to quality necessarily ends liquidity wherever it is. In any financial disturbance, the sensible money goes straight to liquidity, which in the past has always been gold or short-term Treasury bills in the senior currency. I was absolutely startled earlier in the year to learn that other senior central banks and Japan were buying U.S. Treasuries as far out as 10 years, because that suggested they were speculating rather than positioning for reserves. What can happen is that the Bank of Japan could start selling the longer Treasuries, but at the same time it might also be buying shorter-dated Treasuries. So the effect on the dollar would be negligible, but it sure as hell would steepen the yield curve. Q: How are you advising people to position themselves for this scenario? Hoye: We've been advising them to lighten up on lower-grade securities and sell some of the pricey better corporates and to go to short-term Treasuries. Big institutions have always got to own some equities, and they should be paring the industrial cyclicals where there have been some huge gains. They should trim their equity allocation to 50%, and if we get a sell signal in January, that could be cut further to 40%. We've been emphasizing gold because we're probably in a multiyear-long bull market for gold. There is not much liquidity in gold shares, so the whole industry is going to have to grow as more and more investors come into it. Also, prior to 2000 there were five new financial eras, great financial booms, and in all five examples the real price of gold went down and gold stocks didn't perform well. In all five examples, once the boom was over, a long bull market for gold started. We can methodically identify an advancement group that is going to have a long horizon ahead of it, and it is our duty to advertise that. Q: But if the dollar isn't in such dire shape as you suggest, how can that be good for gold? Hoye: There's been a habit of thinking the last couple of decades that the only way that gold can go up is if the dollar goes down. For a real bull market in gold you have to have gold going up in the senior currency. Why would it go up in the senior currency? Because of investment demand. That investment demand in the past has been anticipated by a steepening of the yield curve, as investors get out of longer-term Treasuries and into the shorter end. The two most liquid investments in a flight to quality are gold and the bill market in the senior currency. Q: Are you an advocate of owning gold stocks or gold bullion? Hoye: In gold, you will make more money out of the stocks than you will out of gold. Following the 1929 market crash, Homestake Mining made a low of 81/8 while the price of gold was fixed at $20.67. In 1932, gold was still at $20.67 and Homestake Mining shares were up about 135%. That proved that you can have a bull market for gold shares with no change in the price of gold. Q: But hasn't the price of gold been doing well while the stocks have not? Clark: That was because it was part of a currency play. Hoye: The price of gold wasn't going up in Canadian dollars or euros. To accept that gold can go up in senior currencies is difficult. But again, you go back to any post-bubble period, and the real price of gold has gone up. Q: How significant is it that they've come out with gold exchange-traded funds? Hoye: It is an excellent tool for fund managers and for individuals, and it provides liquidity. If we go into a post-bubble contraction and you own gold ETFs, you gain purchasing power.

 

  By: carlog on Sabato 18 Dicembre 2004 04:52

Gianmario: DVC5(dax volatility index) Livello più basso dal 1996. SHORT/SHORT/SHORT ------------------------ Humm ... qui c'e' il solito problema di interpretare la "volatilita'": Se questa significa "bassa variabilita'" (come io credo) allora si puo anche andare LONG. E qui' pure Zi'Bordi pare si sia convertito alle possibilita' che la crescita continui.

 

  By: defilstrok on Venerdì 17 Dicembre 2004 15:50

Così avevo scritto ieri: "16 December 2004 16:19 Già che ci sono aggiungerei che il 1° target è a 119,34 il successivo a 119,20 il terzo a 118,86" A questo punto non resta vedere se il movimento andrà a beneficio delle borse o se verranno trascinate al ribasso. Al momento punterei ancora su uno slancio rialzista. Livelli d'alert: 4201 di Dax e 2903 di EuroStoxx50

 

  By: gianlini on Venerdì 17 Dicembre 2004 13:49

Tariffe autostradali più care dal primo gennaio 2005. Sulla rete di Autostrade spa, secondo fonti ministeriali, gli aumenti saranno del 2,5%. Per le altre 22 concessionarie di tratti autostradali, gli incrementi sono ancora in fase di calcolo, ma potrebbero oscillare in un range compreso tra il 2 e il 2,5%. L'ultimo rincaro tariffario in ordine di tempo sulla rete gestita da Autostrade risale al primo luglio scorso, con un +2,26% ---------------- Ma è solo per il Bund che l'inflazione è inferiore al 2 %??

Livello più basso dal 1996 - gianmario  

  By: gianmario on Venerdì 17 Dicembre 2004 12:24

DVC5(dax volatility index ) :1385.Delta=-51 Livello più basso dal 1996. SHORT/SHORT/SHORT

 

  By: gianmario on Giovedì 16 Dicembre 2004 21:30

AZ@@!!non per tirarmela:ma direi che non c'e' male come tempismo per la chiamata.......

 

  By: gianmario on Giovedì 16 Dicembre 2004 19:24

Anche il VIX e' ai minimi oggi(1196).Lo scenario a me incomincia a sembrare ideale per lo short come punti di ingresso.........!

 

  By: defilstrok on Giovedì 16 Dicembre 2004 17:22

..il movimento sviluppato dalle 10:40 alle 13:40 era un "123 Hi-Low" da manuale

 

  By: defilstrok on Giovedì 16 Dicembre 2004 17:19

Thank you. Già che ci sono aggiungerei che il 1° target è a 119,34 il successivo a 119,20 il terzo a 118,86

 

  By: gianlini on Giovedì 16 Dicembre 2004 17:01

titoli decennali che vengono acquistati a 120 per esser rimborsati a 100 ! --------- nell'euforia rialzista la gente si dimentica proprio delle considerazioni più banali.... ottima osservazione

 

  By: defilstrok on Giovedì 16 Dicembre 2004 16:56

...però!

 

  By: gianmario on Giovedì 16 Dicembre 2004 16:54

DVC5=DAX VOLATILITY INDEX lettura attuale:1426 DELTA= -83(quando ho postato prima il differenziale era -100)